Saturday, 2 April 2016

Fishing in the Same Pool

I'm back to using the nominative first person singular pronoun because I'm busy and it's easiest. Sigh. However, I'll continues to write some posts without it.

Meanwhile it has come to my attention that Single girls are still freaking out  and raising a stink when Single men ask out more than one girl from within their social or professional circle. Oh dear. How wrong this is.

First, there is a huge moral difference between a decent chap who asks Betty out for coffee on Tuesday and Veronica out for coffee on Friday and the lying seducer who is merely trying to sleep with as many women as humanly possible. It is outrageously unfair to confuse the two.

Second, most men are busy and don't have many social circles. Besides, say a man wants to marry a nice Catholic girl and there are only 15 in town? What's he supposed to do: choose one by lot? No, he gets to know as many of them as possible and then pursues the one he likes best.  No, it doesn't feel good not to be chosen. Yes, it hurts. Life is a vale of tears. Did I mention I met B.A. when I was thirty-freaking-seven? Yes, I think I did.

Third, surely it is better for men to go out and have coffee with real women than to stay at home with their computers. Society's relationship with technology is so messed up our real rivals for men's attention aren't actually other women in our social milieu. They are internet p*rn stars and complete strangers on Tinder.  Personally I do not understand the Tinder dynamic. Do those girls get dinner first or what? Do they like stranger sex so much, they pay the men? Has the world's oldest profession been forced out of business? Can I finish this post without writing, "Boy, am I glad I'm marr--"?

Fourth, the social punishment for creating a public scandal is huge. HUGE. First, men just don't  think it is wrong to ask Betty for coffee on Tuesday and Veronica for coffee on Friday. It's just coffee. If  a man gives either an affectionate peck--or cheerfully goes with the flow when either lungs at him--well, these things just don't mean as much to men unless they are head-over-heels in love-at-first-sight. Other men know this, and they will all take the guy's side whatever they say to the contrary. (Men lie a lot to stay out of trouble, etc.) So when Betty and Veronica discover that they have both had coffee with Archie and start to wail and fuss and accuse Archie of moral turpitude, Reggie, Jughead, Big Moose and the gang start looking for the exits. Not only will they never ask Betty and Veronica out for coffee themselves, they may lose interest in asking out other girls around, too. Nope--it's back to triple XXX, Tinder and ghosting at worst and going down to pub with pals at best. In some circles in the UK, hanging around with girls is considered a bit gay, anyway.

Edinburgh Joke:

Q: What's the definition of a Glasgow poof?
A: A Weegie  (Glaswegian) who likes girls better than beer.

Creating a huge drama because a man dates girls the same way his grandfather did--one this day, one that day, another on the weekend, having sex with none because these are "respectable girls" he knows from work/the neighbourhood/uni--is neither kind nor wise. It can also ruin your reputation at work.

Naturally I understand that if your life revolves around work or studies or the Latin Mass, you are most likely to date men from your work or studies or 150-person parish. However, this should involve DISCRETION. Discretion, at the very least, means not calumniating an unmarried colleague because he spends time with more than one woman instead of exclusively dating you.


  1. Hmm, very good post, but I'm still left kinda sympathetic to Betty & Veronica...

    While you are right that there is nothing wrong with seeing more than 1 person at the same time for initial dates to see if there is a romantic spark, the fuss may come if the guy dos not make it clear from the start to all the girls he is seeing that he is seeing multiple girls *because* these are just starter dates to get to know them.

    As soon as the guy decides they want a definite romantic relationship with one girl, the guy needs to break off seeing the other girls.

    It is only natural that both men and women seek an exclusive 1-1 relationship. Even the liberal atheist feminists are critical of reality TV shows that have 20 women vying for the attentions of 1 man, because it is not grounded in reality and is borderline exploitative of those women's feelings.

    The essential aspect seems to be clear communication about what stage the relationships/dates are at, and a shift to 1-1 dating only when the guy feels a clear spark of romantic attraction to one girl over the others. Not just keeping the other girls on a line as backups in case his first girl falls through. He can always go back and ask them out later if the first relationship fails...

    Southern Bloke.
    P.S. I wonder how the Weegies would feel about the beer over girls thang if they weren't getting any action from their girlfriends? I suspect the beer would lose attraction fast. Just wondering aloud ;)

  2. What you've written is true. I'd add, however, that it really is better if the guy does not carry on with "You're marriage material" and blah blah blah. They should keep it friendly and light.


    1. I agree 100%. I'm not sure what is the appropriate punishment for the self-absorbed son of a gun who tells women they're "marriage material." Stuffed down an empty well for an afternoon with nothing to read but a pile of Cosmos, maybe.

    2. I agree 100%. I'm not sure what is the appropriate punishment for the self-absorbed son of a gun who tells women they're "marriage material." Stuffed down an empty well for an afternoon with nothing to read but a pile of Cosmos, maybe.

  3. The guys should also refrain from mentioned to all and sundry that "I asked Miss X out for coffee and she said yes." There have been times when a male friend of mine has come up to me and said, " and X, hey?" And I haven't breathed a word about X to anyone, so they only way Male Friend could know is because X told him or someone else. Most of the time I don't even know how I feel about X anyway.


  4. Haha, Julia, you actually know a guy who said 'You're marriage material' to a girl as some kind of conversation filler?!@??? My jaw is on the floor. Most blokes you'd be lucky to get a grunt out of them on romantic feelings...

    But do you mean they were leading the girl on by talking about marriage, or just that they raised the issue of marriage far too soon (like first date - eeep!)

    Oh, and the guy broadcasting his coffee catchup with you? That's a mix of sheer relief that you said yes (it is pretty stressful asking a girl, specially when you have heaps of common friends at church who will know if he gets shot down), and gettin his swagger on cos he knows the other guys are gonna be jealous you agreed to coffee with him, and perhaps not them ;)

    It is a compliment, tho I can see how it would be disconcerting for you to have to fend off gossipy enquiries about a date you didn't even know was a date! Enjoy the coffee, and be gentle on the boy :)


  5. SB -- the 'marriage material' thing happened to me after a first coffee date. The guy was not from the Antipodes. I would have died of shock if an Aussie or Kiwi guy had said that. As it is, my Red Alert went off because at this stage I had had only two conversations with the guy. Red Alert was justified, because he turned out to be pretty emotionally unstable.

    The second situation? That was a long time ago. And if I had rejected him for a date, I wouldn't have told anyone, and I assume he wouldn't have either, so how would people have known if he's been 'shot down'?


  6. Okay, so a first date is faaar too soon to be talking about marriage - it took D & BA at least a week, right D? ;) (how do you want us to refer to you on this blog? Mrs Mac, Seraphic, D.. etc?)

    And I'm a bit dim at the end of a weekend, but I'm guessing the guy's error was if he actually thought you were 'marriage material' he should have been proposing, not raising it as some abstract back-handed compliment? (tho again, probably shouldn't be proposing on the first date :D)
    Sad that Red Alert guy turned out to be unstable, but as you say, not surprising in hindsight...

    As for Mr X - people often have to ask someone out in fairly public places, as it can be hard to get 'space' for a private conversation with people you only recently met/know vaguely/know in a certain setting like church. So people may have been observing him ask you.

    But most guys aren't that great at hiding their feelings - we tend to have very bad poker faces! So siblings or mates or church group members probably saw his morose expression and asked him, and he told them then.

    Or he could have just gone round muttering about how awful girls are for not agreeing to go out with wonderful him, which would be very poor form by Mr X...

    P.S. Your second dates must be fun Julia, if you get marriage proposals/indications on your first dates! :)

  7. I like Mrs Mac. I introduced myself by my first name to a little girl the other day, and she seemed so nonplussed, I said I was Mrs McLean, and her little brow cleared. Apparently in her world women my age are Mrs Such-and-Such.

    B.A. got around to proposing in about 10 days. But "You're marriage material" is an extremely unfortunate thing to say if not immediately backed up with "Do you think I am?" It implies not only that the guy sees the world of women as divided into Women Worth Considering as Wives and Women Not Worth Considering as Wives, but that he thinks women see the world of women that way too. "You're marriage material" (if not in the context of "I'm totally in love and saving for a ring") is like saying, "Congratulations! You may have won the right to wash my socks and listen to my snoring, you lucky, lucky, girl!"

    There is always the hope that such a guy is just a clumsy communicator, of course.

  8. Mrs Mac it is :) The little girl's reaction - lol. You must remind her of her Mum or Aunties or teacher...

    And good on BA; 10 days - now that's decisive!!! No 'marriage material' quibbling from him. I hadn't thought of it as dividing the feminine world into 'good enough for a wife or not'. Is that any different to a guy or girl friend-zoning someone? That's kinda saying the friend-zoned are in the 'not wife/husband' category, right?

    I re-read yr post and am laughing about the joke and "hanging around with girls is considered a bit gay" stuff. Asked a guy mate today why he brushed off a couple of pretty girls I've recently introduced him to/pushed at him. I jokingly asked him 'were they not pretty enough? (they were both very hot); do you not want to go out with them?' - he said 'I dunno, its kinda gay' (going out with them)... !@@$! For once I was speechless. I suspect it's shyness, plus being super-focused on his studies. But still!

    P.S. My mate is not catholic, so NCG's aren't missing out i guess. Interesting insight into the mid-20s bloke's mindset tho.

    1. That is sooooo something that an Aussie or Kiwi guy would say...


  9. Ah ha ha! I saw a poster yesterday stating that "homophobia is gay", so quite obviously the word gay has been able to retain its negative connotations (of socially not-up-to-snuff) while having been rehabilitated as an identity tag.

    BA was 37 and I was going to Germany to see my ex-bf, so quick action was called for.

    Personally, I don't friend-zone at first sight. All my male, unmarried, non-seminarian/priest acquaintance under 37 is on my Potential Emergency Third Husband list. ;-)

  10. Haha, what a beautifully ironic poster! (had to be intentionally so, right?)

    Glad to hear you're keeping the entire world's single men outside of the seminary on your shopping list - very open-minded of you ;) May the saints preserve BA and yourself!

    Speaking of fishing from the same pond - little advice please if you can?

    At pub last night and Non-Denominational Christian Girl (formerly known as Pole Dancing Girl #2) is still making a strong play for my attentions, but there is just no romantic spark for her from my part (even tho she is really nice). And she brought 2 new girlfriends, both of whom are single.

    Would it be *terribly* bad form to ask either of them out, given NDC Girl is still clearly interested in me, and has major job stress at the mo'? Awkward, with the prospect of tears. I did ask close friends if I should just talk with NDC Girl about that lack of spark, so she could move on and not waste her time on me, but they said no... hmmmm.

    Oh, and asked that mate about his 'dating a girl is so gay' comment. Turns out he is looking for a NSG (Nice Sikh Girl) from his own religion, so was looking for any excuse not to be introduced to otherwise very nice girls not from his religion (he is very devout). I told him he sounded like a ghetto catholic ;)


  11. Ah, glad you talked to your friend. Yes, he knows what he wants, and happily, he won't be deviated from it. Good for him. Not that you did this, but it is very wicked to try to make someone who wants to marry someone from their own religion feel like a bigot.

    The non-denom girl was a dummy for going to see a guy she liked (and who shows no interest in her) with two attractive friends. Invite them all to a party with a bunch of guys and, like a good host, have a conversation with everyone, including all the girls, and find out if you have anything in common with one of the attractive girls. That's what I would do if it were me and these were guys. If Guy 1 drank himself into a stupor in a corner, I would harden my heart, tra la, and ask another guy to take him home.

  12. Yeh Julia, re: 'hetero is so gay' comment by my mate - logic is not a strong point for we Antipodean men ;) More rugby really.

    Know what you mean Mrs Mac - I did make it clear to my friend that it was a good thing to hold out for a NSG, even if he is fishing from a pond of 1,500 whereas I'm fishing from 1/3 of a million NCG's! (well, less those married NCG's, and the majority just tick the govt census box but aren't practising, so... hmmm, guess my pond is pretty small too, which explains the drought between dates with NCG's! :) )

    I know when priests have told me to 'broaden my horizons with seeing non-catholic girls it has made me feel like I am doing something wrong or being a bit bigoted in focusing on the mythical NCG. I have often been told 'I might be the one who brings her (a non-Catholic girl) to the faith'... which is one reason I have equivocated over NDC girl and not rapidly ruled her out.

    Think I have ready made party coming up next week with NDC girl and her 2 friends, so will follow your advice and see what flows. No chance of drunk guy (or girl) in corner - mostly these are nice amiable geeks/academics ;)

    Thanks, Southern Bloke.